Updates: Toronto board APPROVES black-focused school
(See updates.)
First post dated January 24th, 2008: So, it’s essentially a done deal. According to today’s Toronto Star, Toronto District School Board (TDSB) staff have approved the first (which means there will be more) black-focused school with a final vote by board trustees expected next Tuesday evening, January 29th, 2008. Now, remember, that meeting was supposed to be an open public meeting – which means it really isn’t meant to test public reaction. The board has already made up its collective mind.
The school is to open in the fall of 2009. What an absolute disgrace — to put “loser” labels on so many black young people who deserve so much more. What more can I say? In spite of the fact that Canada is a multicultural country, the City of Toronto will now have the distinction of a return to segregation! Apartheid in our largest city.
Usually known as the “economic” engine of the country, it will now be known for this. This decision is not about political correctness or the needs of the black students requiring help and new opportunities. It’s about a distrust of the education system felt by many blacks and a segregated school is not going to do anything to reduce that mistrust. In fact, in time it will only increase the mistrust as this experiment in human lives fails. Everyone involved in this decision to go ahead should be ashamed!
[...]
Updates Sunday, February 3, 2008:
- On Tuesday evening, January 29th, 2008, trustees at the TDSB approved the black-focused school by a narrow 11-9 vote. That affirmative vote is most unfortunate.Read a very interesting rebuttal to this decision by Toronto Sun columnist “Innocent Madawo,” who refers to this Africentric decision as a misguided concept. I couldn’t agree more. No matter what the proponents of this proposal say, and no matter what the good intentions, it is a return to segregation. Hopefully, the groundswell of anger that is expected against this decision (here in Ontario, the rest of Canada and the U.S.) will result in it being overturned.
- Thomas Walkom of the Toronto Star is also against the black-focused school and says Premier Dalton McGuinty should veto the decision. As Walkom says McGuinty wants it both ways — to disapprove while doing nothing.
- Check out the column by Lorrie Goldstein of the Toronto Sun. He talks about the TDSB’s media strategy and how the board is still “spinning” — some would suggest out of control. It is becoming more clear as time goes on, that this decision to approve a so-called Africentric school, is more about public relations and a response to the Falconer Report, than it is about helping black youth.
- Marianne Meed Ward also has an interesting column in the Toronto Sun today on the topic as well. She goes over issues of diversity within the entire system and suggests that perhaps we could do better with what we have and not need a stand alone black-focused school.
[...]
Ann:
and so much for the authority of the constituency and the authority and decision-making power of the TDSB elected trustees.
I feel sorry for you Josh Mathlow and the rest who really DO represent the grassroots of your city.
Proof positive that education, not only in TDSB but the MOE and all other boards included that the bureaucrats are driving education in the province.
If I were a trustee in this province…..this kind of over-riding of their roles should be a wake-up call for communities, which this is not about. It’s not about communities or black kids, or white kids, or students of any race or culture.
This is something else entirely.
Hmmm, is the bureaucracy really trying to kill elected boards?
January 24, 2008, 10:12 amSandy:
Cynapse — I mentioned the “systems distrust” in this post based on what you said in the other thread. Thanks for the idea.
Ann — It has been like this for a long time, as long as I have been in education, although it seems worse now. The board staff feel they are the qualified people and therefore, take issues to the board simply for rubber stamping and approval. There might be some kind of a debate but in the end the majority rules in favour.
It was the main reason I never did run for trustee although many thought I should once I retired. The lack of any significant input would have driven me off the wall. In fact, if a trustee does not go along he or she is seen as a trouble maker and not a team player.
Perhaps trustees need to remember that they are supposed to be there representing their community — you know those voters who voted for them in the first place.
But, you know what, it’s no different than at the town or city council level. If you are a trouble maker or an SD, you are alone and unable to get any decisions through when you want or need to. Such politics is definitely an art — being seen as proactive but following along with the majority so you can get what you want at a later date.
I hate the whole process yet this is supposed to be what democracy is all about.
My first degree was in Classical Studies so this reminds me of Athens, the seat of western democracy. The citizens chosen to vote on any particular day, used to (anonymously) throw a black stone in the pot for “no” and a white one for “yes.” Maybe we should be doing that? LOL
P.S. My apologies that the server was down for quite a while this morning. Cynapse — it is down quite often these days. Do you have any idea why?
January 24, 2008, 11:52 amBrett:
So Apartheid is officially coming to a Toronto school near you.
January 24, 2008, 12:31 pmUV:
Well, the door to public school segregation was opened many moons ago by allowing four publicly funded systems in Ontario such as the English public, English Catholic, French public and French Catholic.
January 24, 2008, 12:44 pmWhats a few more? although I prefer one publicly funded system.
sor:
Well the flood gates are open. As I understand it religious groups cannot be trusted to follow the curriculum and would teach all kinds of nefarious ideas to mallible students but ‘blacks only’ can be trusted not to.
I wonder how long it will be before arabic nationals are demanding an ‘arabic only’ school because the mainstream schools discriminate against them. The precedent has been set so, what was thwarted by denigrating religious schools, will now be encouraged using a racial basis. (roll eyes here) Only in Ontario. Cheers.
January 24, 2008, 1:02 pmAnn:
Then we could essentially save us all a lot of money and nix elected school officials all together then, because clearly they’re being moved further and further away from their roles by the folks who trustees hire to work for them.
If an outspoken(or troublemaker) trustee is considered a problem defending an issue supported by his/or her constituency then, truly education is being run ass-backwards in this province.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t taxpayer money go toward trustee and board membership to OPSBA? I sure don’t think trustees are getting their money’s worth if they are so easily ignored.
January 24, 2008, 1:04 pmCynapse:
Sandy, you’ll be fighting an uphill battle if these kind of stories continue to propagate:
January 24, 2008, 1:13 pmhttp://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/297108
Maybe it’s just a York problem …
spelling police:
yes, and the Star today has an article written by Annie Kidder that’s worth a read…..and a letter to the editor(from a teacher) who takes Kidder to task.
sor makes a great point - where are all of the same people who spun the fbschools issue and their claim of segregation on this issue? Where too are the same folks who spoke out in favour of choice?
January 24, 2008, 1:53 pmtori:
if you listen to CFRB, the motts will be talking about social promotion, I think.
January 24, 2008, 1:57 pmSandy:
Cynapse — York is the most neo-Marxist university in the country. If they are having racist problems, it is only going to get worse everywhere else. Where in heavens name is this garbage coming from? This is happening in the U.S. too. And, it has nothing to do with 9/11.
Deja vu. This reminds me of the 1950’s when I was still in elementary school. Then, once I got into an all-girls Catholic H.S., I cannot recall even one person of colour in the entire school of 500-700 students. “They” all went to the vocational school! Yikes. I for one do not want to go back there.
One of my best friends in my first job (early 1960’s) for Air Canada was a beautiful young woman from Jamaica, a light skinned black. I can remember us going out to lunch together and her wearing a wide brim hat. I was teasing her about the hat and she spilled out that she wore it because she didn’t want a “tan” because it made her skin darker and she didn’t want to look too black. Why? Because she was marrying a white diplomat that summer.
Underneath it all, has anything really changed?
But, as you say, I sure can’t fight this battle alone. Perhaps we need to start a blog that has writers of all colours, shapes and sizes who are against racism of any kind — even reverse racism. For example, there is a view among many people of colour that “they” cannot be racist, that only whites can be. Well, that is just not so. Racism is racism. Could we do that at “With Good Reason?” What better reason?
Just wondering. Otherwise, I will simply go on to other topics because one voice in the wilderness is all I would be.
January 24, 2008, 1:59 pmSandy:
SOR & SP — You’ve both got some good points. The Toronto Sun is reporting (don’t have the link) that the blacks-only school will cost up to $830,000.
Now, where is that money going to come from? Other programs — which mean those programs will suffer? The MOE? I would like to know.
And, why wouldn’t Muslims ask for an alternative school? It will be racist just to have two such schools — one for students of First Nations ancestry and those with a certain type of African ancestry. Meaning, it will also be racist to separate which African country qualifies and which doesn’t. Africa is a big continent and includes many Muslim countries.
Yikes! This is going to open up an incredible can of worms. The TDSB has not heard anything yet. If a FB school was going to be segregationist during the October 2007 election…..Hello Ontario voters? As you say SOR, only in Ontario. How embarrassing!
January 24, 2008, 2:14 pmSandy:
Ann — It is very rare for trustees to vote against anything the board brings to the table because they assume the staff have done the research, etc. So, I didn’t mean to imply that they don’t do their work. They do. However, by the same token, it is extremely rare to find a trustee to buck a trend.
However, as we know, we had a Toronto trustee on the other thread last weekend. He is quoted in todays Toronto Sun as being against the idea because it is segregationist. Josh also said he thought it was going to be a close vote.
Now, what would happen if the vote was no. I suppose it’s still possible. Good on Josh!
January 24, 2008, 2:16 pmAnonymous:
I have to disagree with ‘to put “loser” labels on so many black young people who deserve so much more’. Only the losers in the black community will go to this school. The “smart” ones, the ones who have some potential to make it in this society, will realize that to attend the school they’ll be ghettoized with the worst miscreants and the academically challenged, and their education will suffer. They’ll also be stigmatized as students who couldn’t make it in a “real” school. The result will be that the academic performance in the school will probably be pathetic, and the politically correct will just keep moving the bar down to make the students “feel good” about themselves and to appease parents.
January 24, 2008, 2:17 pmAs I said yesterday, graduating from this school will be a permanent stigma on a person’s resume.
Sandy:
Anonymous — What you say is unfortunately going to be proven correct.
However, I am of the school of thought that most children, no matter how much trouble they have gotten into, can be turned around with caring creative teachers — in concert with supportive parents, who support both their child AND the school.
That is what good schools should be about. NOT just warehousing problem students. It’s not easy and it takes money. But, it can be done. I know this from first hand experience.
January 24, 2008, 2:21 pmMaryT:
Will it be mandatory for black students to go to a black only school.
January 24, 2008, 2:36 pmAnd to think MLK fought this for years. Seems his dream has turned into a nightmare.
Cynapse:
Sandy, you are more than welcome to use withgoodreason.com as an agent of change and certainly bring a friend. Emilia seems to be on the same page as you so I’ll ask if she has any more cents to put in. Basically you can make whatever argument you wish so long as it is made with good reason (terrible … terrible … sorry couldn’t resist).
January 24, 2008, 2:36 pmWe can chat on email tonight if you want.
Sandy:
Cynapse — Mary T has a point re MLK. Can you imagine what he would say about this new force for change — towards segregation.
“I have a dream” takes on a whole new meaning. For all those people in the U.S. and Toronto who are pushing this view, it has surely has become “I have a nightmare.” Yet, those behind this bandwagon seem oblivious to what it all really means.
We can talk further by e-mail later.
January 24, 2008, 2:44 pmSandy:
To everyone — Although this is off topic — my husband had his car stolen a few months back. He got the car back and the police told him it was four young offenders that were involved. This was NOT their first offense.
The point is — ALL the youth were “WHITE.”
Problem youth come in all shapes and sizes, from all different cultures and all different colours. At some point, every troubled youth has to make a personal choice and a personal decision to turn his (or her) life around. It’s about social and personal responsibility and refusing to be a victim.
IMO, colour has very little to do with that.
January 24, 2008, 2:59 pmAnonymous:
Sandy
January 24, 2008, 3:03 pmYou may be right that problem children/students can be turned around. That assumes that good teachers will gravitate to this school. My expectation is the opposite is truer. Good teachers will gravitate toward the schools where they can expect good students and a safe working environment. The political activists may gravitate to this school but in my experience they tend to be anything but good teachers and more interested in their political agendas and apparent stature in their own politically active peer group than they are in the kids.
The other problem is the kids that can’t/won’t make it elsewhere will be shunted to the black-centric school(s), and over time the median behaviour and performance of the total student body will deteriorate, driving away the remaining good students and teachers. This will become a self-fulfilling prophecy unless we start something like the US bussing program (a dismal failure) and force good students/teachers into these schools against their will. If that accomplishes anything it will, like the US create a burgeoning private school industry and parents clamoring for a voucher system.
Finally, and most damaging of all, white, black, green, good student, bad student, it doesn’t matter. Graduating from this school will tar the graduate. Its like having a criminal record. No one asks if you got it for smoking pot, cheating on your taxes, driving too fast or walking into a shopping mall and shooting down 60 shoppers. Employers, neighbours etc will look at the criminal record and make the instant judgement.
Cynapse:
Sandy, talk to nearly any well-heeled Caribbean and they’ll openly say it’s all about culture, more than race. Without getting into too many details, the “troublemakers” in Toronto were troublemakers in Jamaica as well. But at some point in the 1970’s Canada wanted cheap labour for nannies etc and so we raided a few places - including Jamaica. We also hit the Phillippines, Portugal and Latin America for cheap (re: uneducated) labour. Big shocker that most publicized problems with school performance and violence (gun or otherise) involve Filipinos, Portuguese, Latin Americans and Caribbeans. “You get what you pay for” comes to mind.
Another topic that will become an issue in the future is the failing schools in whiter, smaller towns. Every time I travel to Kitchener, Barrie or London the streets look progressively grimey. Violent crime (knives rather than guns) and drug use (especially meth) are becoming more common although few people seem to be interested in talking about it … for now.
January 24, 2008, 3:04 pmRaphael Alexander:
It’s disturbing to think that now blacks will be segregated into schools for long periods of time, further diminishing their chances to become socially cohesive when this alleged education is finished. Thank God I’m not a professionally aggrieved minority.
January 24, 2008, 3:28 pmPatrick Ross:
Who would have thought it would take black activists to achieve such a stunning spiritual reversal of Brown vs. Education?
January 24, 2008, 3:37 pmAnn:
Good trustees will vote as a representative of the constituency that elected them.
Your very discussion based on your experience actually just confirms the mentality that trustees must accept the rubber stamp role.
I don’t agree and unless voters wise up, all taxpayers are doing is paying to have trustees act as extensions of that bloated bureaucracy.
January 24, 2008, 3:41 pmAnn:
You know who’s getting off REALLY easy in all of this don’t you?
The premier and his education minister. After the noise they made re: fbschools, taxpayers and Torontonians are giving him a very free ride these days. So is the media.
January 24, 2008, 4:36 pmUV:
My understanding of this issue is that anyone can attend but focus will be on black students.
January 24, 2008, 5:36 pmSandy:
Ann — I sent you an e-mail but you may read this sooner. I have put up a post with the list you put on yesterday’s thread. Well done.
January 24, 2008, 8:14 pmAre You Serious:
I am a black student and black only schools sounds like a really stupid idea, thats jus sayin black people are special and cant learn like everyone else, what makes a black student different from a white student, Asian student, Indian student? This is pure nonsense if u ask me. If they want to be treated equally then they shouldn’t vote for stuff like this. When i went to school i learned with all types of races and we were under the same curriculum. If they make black only schools then the students only get to socialize with their own race and thats it. in ANY OTHER school its multicultural. This is basically saying black students aren’t good enough to come to regular schools so they need their own school to focus on them because they cant be bothered with regular schools anymore.
(Note: Edited by COTM)
January 31, 2008, 12:09 amRoye:
Sorry, but this school is not “blacks only”….
At least report the facts….
January 31, 2008, 6:17 pmSandy:
Roye — Your mincing words. Blacks-only or black-focused, it’s all the same. Who else is going to attend? Why would a child who is not of black ancestry what to study only African history and African culture? And, if that is not the case, that all cultures will be studied, then why is a separate school needed?
As far as facts go, no actual facts are yet known and won’t be until we know the make up the student body. Until then, neither you nor anyone else can actually say what those facts are — assuming in even goes forward after all is said and done.
A look at the TDSB website indicates the school will be for students of African descent and other racialized groups. And, who are racialized groups? Those from Muslim countries like Egypt or Morocco? I doubt it very much that students from those cultural-ethnic groups would be interested in a black-focused school — although, now with this precedent, it is just a matter of time that they ask for their own school.
January 31, 2008, 6:40 pmBee:
I can completely understand people not approving of this idea or not wanting to send their own kids to this school, however I cannot for the life of me understand why people insist on impeding on other parents’ rights to want to send their kids to an Afrocentric school. I’m beginning to feel like the media is dictating entirely the political and social stance on the idea of Black focused schools. Everyone is complaining about Black-focused schools when the real problem is the WHITE-FOCUSED CURRICULUM THAT CURRENTLY EXISTS.
Firstly, people seem to have forgotten the one and most important thing about this entire initiative: CHOICE! For some reason people believe that Black kids will be forced into this school. That is not the case. Contrary to popular belief, come September 2009, all of the Black kids in the city WILL NOT be attending this school. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO ATTEND THIS SCHOOL NOR SEND YOUR CHILD TO THIS SCHOOL, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO!!!!
Secondly, there are already Afrocentric curriculums being taught in 3 schools within Toronto that are ALREADY (technically) SEGREGATED, meaning their students are over 50% Black. This schools dropout rate has come down greatly within the past 2 years. Has anyone ever gone to an elementary school or high school near Jane & Finch or Driftwood or Jamestown? The schools there are roughly 90% Black. In comparison, have you ever gone into an elementary school or high school in the Bayview, Forest Hill and Parkdale area, these schools are almost all white. Again, if you’ve ever been to a school in Markham, most of these schools are white and chinese. Alot of schools in Toronto are ALREADY racially segregated.
Thirdly, there are already over 30 ALTERNATIVE SCHOOLS IN TORONTO! If my child is gay, lesbian, transgendered there is a school for them, if my child is Aboriginal there are 2 schools for them, if my child is good at sports or arts there several schools for them, if my child has behavioural problems there is a school for them, if my child doesnt like attending school regularly there are several schools for them, if my child is mentally delayed or disabled there are several schools for them, if my child is Jewish there are schools for them (although with most Jewish schools tuition is payed for by parents although the province does provide some help), if my child is Catholic there are hundreds of schools for them and ALL OF THESE SCHOOLS are payed for with TAX DOLLARS. Why does no one complain about these schools?
Fourthly, This entire process has been going on for almost 30 YEARS! There have been numerous recommendations made over the past 30 years by Stephen Lewis, the Royal Commission and various educators. For those who think that this issue came up just a few years ago, that is a complete fallacy. Twenty years ago, the highschool dropout rate among Black males was 20%. At that time, recommendations were made to either create an Afrocentric school or include Afrocentric studies in the curriculum. The school board ignored this. Now the dropout rate is 40%, I applaud the TDSB for at least trying to do something.
Fifthly, THIS SCHOOL IS NOT ONLY FOR BLACK KIDS! ANYONE who wishes to have their kids attend this school can apply to do so. As well, the teachers they choose for this school will not only be Black. In the 3 Afrocentric curriculumed schools that they already have in Toronto, there are children within these schools that are not Black who are taught the same Afrocentric curriculum. Sixthly, if we want to talk about Afrocentric schools, let’s deal with the issue of the PRESENT EUROCENTRIC curriculum in Toronto’s public schools. History, math, philosophy etc…are taught from a Eurocentric perspective.
Aboriginals are HARDLY mentioned, unless related with trade, when truly they are THE REAL CANADIANS. Black people are only mentioned in the context of slavery or the underground railroad. How many people have heard of Matthew Dacosta (Google him, he was a Black man who helped the Europeans who established the Hudson’s Bay Company by interpreting Native languages. The company we now call The Bay COULD HAVE NEVER BEEN STARTED WITHOUT THIS BLACK MAN!).
When teaching philosophy, math or science, most teachers do not mention that Greek philosophies were taken from BLACK EGYPTIAN philosophers and that most of the famous Greek philosophers studied in Africa and brought those theories that ALREADY EXISTED back from Africa to Greece. Do they ever mention that most of the mathematic equations we learn today are from Black Egypt (and Egypt was a Black nation, dont let the Ten Commandments movie fool you) and Arab world? Do they ever mention that most scientific theories today are taken from the Arabs? There are hardly any Black authors or any authors of colour within the English curriculum.
You want to talk about segregation? Being excluded from areas of math, science, art, philosophy and history in a city like Toronto IS TRULY SEGREGATION! Furthermore, the school their looking to open is from kindergarten to grade 4, and the kids who will attend this school will not be “problem children” from other schools, this is not a dumping ground. The school will only accept about 800 students.
I went through the Toronto public school system and I know what goes on and no I’m not old, i’m 21. Black students are treated, spoken to and dealt with like they are stupid. I have heard white teachers tell Black male students that they will never amount to anything in front of an entire classroom. They are punished more often and more harshly for things that regularly go on within Toronto highschools. As a child, the curriculum always made me feel inadequate. I knew I was smart as hell, no one could tell me otherwise, but it just seemed like everything had been done and was being done by white people and that is ludicrous and completely untrue.
For those of you who want to argue that it starts in the home, YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE GOOD PARENTING! SOME PARENTS DO NOT HAVE THE LUXURY OF SPENDING LOTS OF TIME WITH THEIR KIDS BECAUSE PEOPLE GENERALLY DONT WANT TO BE HOMELESS AND SO SOME (notice I said some, because really some people are just bad parents) OF THEM HAVE TO WORK. You can however give a child a sense of self-worth by teaching them at an early age what their ancestors and people who looked like them were able to do and how they contributed to their socitey. In a city like Toronto, the current curriculum is unacceptable.
The TDSB does not want to change the current curriculum to include more African Canadian contributions and so this is their alternative. BOTTOM LINE, IF YOU DONT WANT TO ATTEND THIS SCHOOL OR HAVE YOUR CHILDREN GO TO THIS SCHOOL, THEN FINE BUT DON’T STOP OTHER PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GO OR WANT TO SEND THIER KIDS TO THIS SCHOOL! It’s only one school, at least give it a chance and see if it makes a difference.
(Edited by COTM)
February 1, 2008, 11:10 pmBee:
To Ann:
Clearly, you aren’t aware that Torontonian taxpayers ALREADY pay for OVER 30 ALTERNATIVE SCHOOLS. As I mentioned previously,
There are alternative schools for gays, lesbians, transgendered people, Aboriginals, non-english speaking adult immigrants, sports, arts, children with behavioural problems, children and teenagers dont like attending school regularly, children who are mentally delayed or disabled, children who are Jewish (although with most Jewish schools tuition is payed for by parents although the province does provide some help),Catholic (a little odd with the number of people with different religions living in the city). GUESS WHAT? ALL OF THESE SCHOOLS are payed for with TAX DOLLARS. Why does no one complain about these schools? It’s okay for Islamic, Hindu, Jewish, Christian (non-catholic), Rastafarian,Agnostic and Atheist taxpayers to pay for Catholic schools but a black focused school is a problem. I agree with you on one thing. Dalton McGuinty is a taller version of George W.
(Revised COTM)
February 1, 2008, 11:19 pmSandy:
Bee — You bring up some good points. However, just as it is your right to agree with this black-focused school, we live in a free democractic country and I also have the right to completely disagree with you.
Also, your good points were reduced in relevance by your rant. In some places I have had to edit your remarks which could be construed as defamation.
Feel free to share but don’t expect me or anyone else to necessarily agree with you just because you are black. Visit Cynics Unlimited and read what Cynapse has to say, a thirty year old black who disagrees with you completely.
February 1, 2008, 11:45 pmBee:
You’re very presumptuous in assuming that I am Black. Is it so hard to believe that there are some people who are not Black who want to see this school opened? As well, this cynapse character your talking about is very interesting in his/her statements. He/She mentions that he/she watched the board meeting on TV. Since I actually attended this meeting, I can tell you that the synopsis people saw on TV was highly inflammatory. The incident with the ONE board member who was accosted by ONE angry parent was an ISOLATED INCIDENT. The rest of the almost 5 hour meeting went on peacefully, but of course that’s not the juicy stuff people want to see. What people want to see is Black people behaving like the animals most people assume and like to think they are. As far as being classless during the meeting. Have you ever watched the Conservatives, Liberals and NDP members discuss issues in the House of Commons? HISSING AND CLAPPING, calling people dogs (then not having the testicular fortitude to even aknowledge it), booing and making sexist and racist remarks while people are speaking. These people are supposed to be the “educated” and “high-class” elite. See any similarities between them and parents at the school board meeting? Also, the last time I checked, Africa was a CONTINENT with over 50 countries. When did Ethiopia and Somalia become the definition of African? Since I was there, I can tell you that there were Africans from various different countries in attendance including Ethiopia and Somalia. Some in FAVOUR and some AGAINST. Either way, let’s see what happens. It it fails, you and those against black focused school should throw a party. Send me an invite if you do, and see if your assumption about my race is correct…lol
Ciao.
February 3, 2008, 1:36 amSandy:
Bee — You certainly have an “attitude.” You fail to recognize the only reason many of us are against this black-focused school is because it is against black youth. I want black youth to have the same opportunities as any other youth. That is all. Pure and simple.
One of my research interests when I was a teacher education academic was social deviance and the unfortunate power of “labels.” This school will automatically label the youth that attend as losers and unable to cope within the mainstream. There are better ways to lower drop out rates and improve academic achievement. There are also better ways that don’t target black youth for life as unable to cope.
At my age I am not interested in any parties. I am also not interested in celebrating failure. Quite the opposite. I am only interested in success. I also believe an Africentric curriculum can be included in the already existing “ethnocentric” curriculum within the regular public school system without segregation.
If you were at last Tuesday’s board meeting and didn’t see anything wrong, it is you who has a problem, not me or anyone here. Trustees were threatened when they voted against this proposal. It was not an isolated incident. That is not democracy. That is intimidation. And, people who hiss and talk when they have been asked not to is tasteless if nothing else.
However, what is worrying is the fact that you are making excuses for such bad behaviour says a lot more about you than you seem to realize. It is the same way far too many parents of black youth react. Blame the system or someone else for the bad behaviour of the child. No, the so-called isolated incidents are just more proof why a black-focused school is going to be an “us against them” environment. And, since we are a multicultural society, that cannot be good in the long run.
Read also this analysis by the Toronto Sun’s Innocent Madawo. You are in the minority on this one and given the can of worms it has opened (other groups across the Ontario are now demanding their own schools as well), it will hopefully be overturned.
February 3, 2008, 11:06 amAnn:
a message for Bee who suggested that I was obviously not aware of the ALREADY “over 30″ alternatives within the TDSB paid for by taxpayers.
Hate to burst your bubble but I am intimately familiar with the fact that this has been one of the TDSB’s best kept secrets for years. In fact, I have friends who attended those schools because they were as close to private schools as one can get, and get paid for within the public system. I’ve been a supporter and contributor to the move to allow parents more power and gov’t support in their choices and am 100% behind the province entering into charter legislation….which is one way to squelch this whole argument.
Have you Bee attended any one of the many school choices conferences that were held over the last 10 years. I have. I not only attended I hosted one and co-hosted another. You?
When I watch Focus Ontario on Global last night and saw two black gentlemen debating this issue, I did hear the fellow who was in favour suggest that the curriculum would be altered, and he also suggested that the current system was failing students. I got the impression that what he is wanting as an alternative is akin to a private school of choice paid for by taxpayers.
Answer me this question Bee - if you’re opposed to standing in the way of parents making choices for the education of their children, are you opposed to those who most need it of all races, creeds, colours, cultures being allowed to choose to move out of the public system into a system that receives its funding directly from the government with no school board middleman?
Are you opposed if a school were to hire uncertified teachers, principals to manage the children’s education?
When Dr. Fuller from Milwaukee(a school district that was declared on life support and which has the same multicultural challenges) was on TVO last week he emphasized that the way this whole TDSB intiative has been rolled out and spun by detractors and media is about the wrong thing. It should be about education and achievement and it has largely been twisted into something that’s bound to fail.
Timed as it was right after the Falconer bombshell was also a huge mistake by the TDSB communication strategists(see Lorrie’s column today). Falconer shouldn’t get off scott free in this at all, because his report was the first step in spinning what should have been a discussion about adding more effective choice to a system that’s failing MORE than black kids, into something that the TDSB and yes, Dalton McGuinty’s gov’t is going to wear for a while yet.
We heard from trustee Josh Matlow on this blog in the run-up to the vote. Perhaps we can issue an invitation to him to come back and offer some postmortem comments? I for one would like to hear them.
I’d also like to hear more from the proponents of school choice like the Society for Quality for Education which attended the school board meeting also and is in favour of this move and who brought Dr. Fuller to Toronto in the first place.
February 3, 2008, 1:06 pmSandy:
Well said Ann.
I think what Innocent Madawo (who, according to what he says himself, is actually an African, not simply a fifth or sixth generation African) of the Toronto Sun says is relevant also (see link in update). Namely, that parent involvement is key no matter where children attend school. Also, if parents don’t value an education, how will children? Moreover, while clearly a small minority in our society, the irresponsibility of fathers (no matter what their colour) who desert their children needs to be addressed as well. Fathers need to be in their children’s lives and role models to their sons. Also, daughters need to know how to get along with the males in their lives.
I too would like to hear from the Society for Quality Education. How could school choice accommodate this type of situation without it being a form of segregation? I am sure it can be done but I would like to hear from proponents. As a curriculum specialist I think some of the curriculum can relate to one’s history and origins, but that is where it should stop because graduates have to live and work in a multiculture society. If, however, the TDSB already plans on doing this, how will this new school be any different from any other?
Or, at the end of the day, is this all just a public relations exercise in avoiding the real issue of parenting and parent involvement. If this is the case, this issue is going to bite everyone involved, including Premier McGuinty. Because the floodgates are just about to be opened. Unintended consequences can sometimes be interesting. This is precisely the time that the SQE should get out there and be heard. They can offer policies that could save the day as it were.
Just my opinion.
February 3, 2008, 1:30 pmspelling police:
Ann, Sandy, Bee - if alternative schools aren’t new, then the gov’t should wrap legislation clearly around the practice and allow all school boards to opt into alternatives when “regular” school doesn’t work for those kids. Although, what does that say about our school system in general.
I agree….time to move this province to either charter legislation or allow those kids at risk and their families a ticket out of the failing school and into an alternative of choice.
February 3, 2008, 1:34 pmspelling police:
Sandy - the point re: parental involvement is interesting and I have to wonder if school councils had been allowed to flourish the way they were intended, would those at risk schools and children be this far behind? Somehow I doubt it yet, I have heard that when it comes to school councils the TDSB has been really bad at getting them together because there was a turf war going on between outside(and very political) parent advocacy groups like People for Education and Wynne’s old Metro Parent Network(now Toronto Parent Network). Time was when a parent who didn’t want to be supportive of either of those organizations had trouble getting a council to work…let alone parents to sit on them.
February 3, 2008, 1:39 pmSandy:
SP — It doesn’t say much about our system, does it?
But, you know, while I haven’t actually taught at the elementary or secondary level since the mid 1980’s, the system has always been about the average to above average child.
After Bill 82 in the early 1980’s legislated special education services (which used to be provided to the most needy anyway) the system has gradually been falling apart.
And, I am going to be fair here, while it is popular to blame the teachers and the teachers’ unions, one only has to remember that teachers and board trustees only respond to public and political pressure. Now, teachers are expected to teach the same content and skills to every single child, what is kindly referred to as the “teachable” child, even those that are intellectually disabled. How is that possible? While we all have the right to equal opportunities, we don’t all have an equal condition.
How fair is it to expect a child with a below average intellectual capacity to learn and perform the same as someone who is in the average range? In some instances, from what I have seen, unfair and unrealistic expectations could actually be called abuse. Can we not simply accept everyone where they are at — for who they are — without unrealistic expectations from others? Not everyone is going to get A’s and not everyone is going to go to college and university.
We, the public, have done this to ourselves. We have put expectations on a system that are simply beyond possible.
However, IMO, charter or alternative schools might help this situation a lot — which is why I am a supporter of parent choice. For example, I might even be tempted to be the start-up principal of a special needs school because I came up with very effective multi-sensory and multi-dimensional learning and study strategies that worked when I was in practice. Every student in a school like that should have access to a “listening centre” for example, and a tape-recorder that has a record feature. Miracles could happen. I know they could.
Ah, this getting older means I can’t be a part of this new wave that is starting to crest over Ontario. However, I can watch from here — and at least I won’t get wet. LOL
February 3, 2008, 1:45 pmSandy:
Further links added to today’s updates — Thomas Walkom of the Toronto Star and Lorrie Goldstein of the Toronto Sun. Obviously, and probably to the chagrin of the TDSB, this story has taken off. Which is great because political pressure can undo decisions as well. Or, McGuinty will have to face the reality of publicly funded alternative schools.
February 3, 2008, 2:10 pmAnn:
How fair was it in the early 1960s to have classes of over 35 pupils, a standard curriculum, very few cases of special populations identified and still we managed to churn out a generation of grads. who could do math and read? We had a mix of the united nations in my school. The teacher was expected, and did manage to bring all students up to those expectations.
I don’t agree with your assumption that it’s only “popular” to blame teachers and their unions. Teachers need to be treated apart from their union if you ask me, and at what point are you ready to admit that some fact rather than popularity exists that would warrent some accountability from that partner. If its society that’s at fault here are not the teachers and their unions just as accountable?
Also you say that “teachers and board trustees only respond to public pressure”. Not any more they don’t. As you wrote in one of your articles yourself, there appeared to be a big push on by the TDSB administration rather than the trustees to move to this alternative. I think it’s getting harder and harder for trustees to respond to their public constituents. Especially with this overly hands-on gov’t and Minister of Ed. This too has been evolving over the years, and we were warned that a move to the Carver model of governance would see trustees roles be diminshed and board meetings designed more for presentations of gov’t policy/initiative than of public presentation or trustee discussion.
I believe this is the case.
February 3, 2008, 3:51 pmSandy:
Ann — While I agree teachers today are not the same as they used to be, I will not make them the scapegoats for all that is wrong with schools. It is true that today many are union types and work to rule. But, most really do care about their students.
The reality is that classroom teachers can change very little on their own. They can close their doors and worry only about their students, which many do, but they are powerless to bring about change.
While you may disagree with that assessment, that is the reality teachers live with. They cannot speak openly to parents because it would be considered unprofessional. They cannot speak against other teachers for the same reason. There is a professional code of conduct that is drilled into student teachers from the get-go, a code that is rarely discussed openly. In short, teachers will rarely tell a parent exactly what they really think (in relation to the running of the school, other teachers, etc) because they could lose their jobs if they did.
In fact, that expected code of conduct is one of the main reasons I left teaching in the system and went on to teach university. There, within reason, I could speak my mind. However, like any workplace, there are some things one never discusses with the customers — in that case students.
Another reason I left the public school system is because teachers must be conformists — not my cup of tea obviously!
Anyway, just because teachers are the front line workers, they are not the ones who should be accountable for the whole system. They are already accountable via the curriculum documents and student achievement. However, if there are policies of social promotion or whatever, that is what they have to do. If there are certain report card templates, that is what they have to use.
The real accountability belongs to board administrators, school principals (who can’t do much on their own sayso either) and trustees. They are the ones who “tell” teachers what they must do.
So, on this topic, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
February 3, 2008, 6:04 pmAnn:
Those same front line workers do however need to be confident and accountable for educating students. No scapegoating whatsoever.
Leaving educators out of the accountability puzzle? You might as well move them out of being able to affect the system all together.
I might have bought that years ago, but I don’t now because I have never known a school board or principal that hasn’t buckled to union pressure.
We’ve come full circle into defining what it is educators do?
True partnership among stakeholders includes teachers. That can’t happen when one or the other partner claims victim-status.
February 3, 2008, 6:38 pmSandy:
Good lord Ann — I would never consider teachers victims, just front line workers. Much like nurses. They have only so much clout and only so much power. Where I lament is when teachers are unnecessarily condescending and arrogant when dealing with parents and others. But, as far as agents of change, they cannot change schools any more than nurses can change hospitals.
While it is true the teachers’ unions are far too powerful, that is now going to be hard to rein in. Any other provincial government will be hammered just as the Harris government was. Then, the general public will blame all the protests on the government rather than the unions.
But, just as I may have blinders on with regard to the true role teachers play and the necessity of their abiding by very strict codes of conduct and professionalism, you too are prejudiced. I don’t think there is anything I could say that would change your views on teachers.
But, reality is reality. Go after the policians and tell them to rein in the unions. The teachers sure can’t do it.
February 3, 2008, 7:12 pmAnn:
I’m prejudiced because I think that teachers, just like the rest of the stakeholders have a responsibility to be accountable to students, the same as the rest?
You can’t assume you know what my views on teachers are just because I think they’re part and parcel of both the successes and failures of education.
I value the same good teachers you do. The difference is that I think teachers do have a voice, it’s just not often heard, but it’s there. I give them much more credit.
If individual teachers can’t rein in their own representation then you’ve just made the best case yet for a need for new representation…..except that the unions must be doing something right for teachers because they seem to get all they ask for.
I’m not the one who has to be happy with the unions. Only teachers can.
I could care less actually.
That’s between the teachers and their union reps. However, when the a teacher union wants the taxpaying public, or parents, or communities to choose between a job action, or a student, I’m going to fall down on the side of the student each and every time.
“Teacher Unions In Canada” by Stephen Lawton, George Bedard, Duncan MacLellan and Xiaobin Li is a powerful read and traces just how the teacher unions have grown to be the most influential organization in Canadian education.
That’s not prejudice. It’s historical fact.
February 3, 2008, 8:44 pmspelling police:
Sandy, just because teachers love children doesn’t make them good teachers. They really are unlike any other unionized profession. Those board officials and principals you speak of buckle to union demands too because the majority of those folks are obliged to a teacher union because they came up through the ranks.
I agree with Ann. If teachers really feel so penned in by their unions and find their conditions so offensive…..either find their voice or get new representation. But we know that will not happen because down deep they like the outcomes of what the unions do for them. More money and the best deal for their membership dues.
If teachers were held to account for education we’d be seeing merit pay so that those who do produce results are rewarded for it and those bad teachers could be weeded out.
I know of teachers who will say that they don’t agree with their union on one thing or another but in the end the unions have nothing to do with students but tend to influence the public into believing that they do. Examples are the ETFO’s latest campaign to stop Grades seven and eight students from moving to secondary schools. There appeal and ads aren’t out there aimed at teachers they’re aimed at taxpayers, parents, and school communities.
February 4, 2008, 8:40 amspelling police:
……and I don’t think asking teachers to be part of the accountability loop is a sign of prejudice. Low blow…even for you Sandy.
February 4, 2008, 8:42 amSandy:
Spelling police — Low blow, even for me? What exactly do you mean? Am I expected to trash teachers just because certain parents and visitors here think I should. Do I expect them to be able to change the unions and the system when I know perfectly well they can’t. Of course they should be a part of the accountability loop but not regarding changing the system. Change in education has to come from the top down which is why it is so hard to change anything.
I find this whole discussion very telling and disappointing. Teachers need to be accountable as far as student achievement, report cards, etc., but they can’t do anything about changing the curriculum, etc.(other than modifying some units) or the unions. And, they certainly cannot say whatever they want in parent interviews or with parents who sit on parent councils — at least not without pre-approval from their principal.
I am a retired teacher. Just what do people want me to say? My husband is also a retired teacher who still teaches half-time in a private school. And, yes, there are differences in a private school but even there it is not the teachers who bring about change. It is the administration and the board.
The crux of the matter is that I am who I am, warts and all. If people wanted this blog to be anti-teacher, they have come to the wrong spot. I will speak up about areas where I disagree, but I will not simply bash teachers.
You are angry that I used the word prejudice. According to Wikipedia, it is when someone makes a judgment before they have all the known facts. That was what I was trying to do, provide the facts.
In the end, as I said to Ann, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
February 4, 2008, 10:00 ameduc8m:
Please note in the article below “Give all parents educational choice,” the reference to Dr. Howard Fuller. It was
the Society for Quality Education that sponsored his trip to
Toronto
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080204.wcoafro04/BNStory/specialComment/home
(Revised by COTM to remove actual article so as not to break G&M copyright.)
February 4, 2008, 10:46 am